I decided to take the plunge, mainly because I can get it pretty cheap where I'm at.  Got 14 pills for my first month for $18 of real avodart, not generic.  I am going to take one pill each day the first week to load up and then take a pill sunday and thursday after that.  I stopped taking the finasteride a couple weeks in when I restarted it a few months back and stopped because I noticed a decline in libido... my hair is really showing it now so gotta do something.  So far after 2 days on no side effects.

It is going to be interesting... on the one hand, I was a very good responder to propecia.. but that was 10 years ago - i've been on and off it a few times over that span and it's surprising i still have as much hair as i do... will be interesting to see if it will recover some of the hair lost over the last couple years that propecia had been helping hold onto and stress has managed to get rid of... I will be looking to add other things as well but I'm going to add one at a time.

As far as getting it online or your doctor, that's mostly up to what your comfort level and wallet can afford.  it will be much more expensive to get it though your doctor (visit + brand name which isn't cheap) - but that is much faster than online and you know you're getting top quality.  Online you will have to wait for it to come from overseas, and it will be generic from another country but it'll be a lot cheaper.  You can pretty much get the hair loss 2.5mg dosage online for the same cost as buying the .5mg brand name in he US.  I'm lucky because of where I live I can get brand name avodart with no doctors visit for the same price as generic   if i don't have an adverse reaction to the .5mg dose, I may go up to 2.5 after a few months depending on the results i see.

Could be -- but there's a pretty small difference between 0.5mg dutasteride (avodart) and the 2.5mg dose. 90% (0.5mg) vs. 96% (2.5mg) reduction of circulating DHT - vs. 70% reduction for 5mg Finasteride (proscar).  54% (0.5mg) vs. 82% (2.5mg) scalp DHT reduction - vs. 38% for finasteride.

I would guess bumping up from 0.5mg to 1mg would not provide much difference, though the reduction in scalp DHT from the higher dose might be of some additional benefit.  No real way to know though especially since people tend to respond differently from individual to individual.  Just keep in mind the higher the dose the more likely the chance of side effects.

I would go with a topical.  A good shampoo is always a good addition, but if you're looking for extra results you want a topical.  There's also lasers too

Wow $50 for zenagen?? No thanks... even $39... i use RegenePure.  It's not cheap but cheaper than Zenagen and sounds like just as good.  Only problem is I am running out so I haven't been using it regularly lately just every few days   need to get more

On day 6 of dutasteride, so far no side effects (or increased libido).  I'm just glad there's been no weird side effects like achey balls or brain fog or anything (at least no more than i have when i wasn't on anything )

good time to get on dutasteride too as i'm trying to exercise every day and definitely don't wanna lose more hair from that.

Nope - dutaseride will increase your testosterone over 10%.  For some men this spike in testosterone is going to increase libido... it can also lead to weight loss and lean mass gain if you are lucky.

Increase in test is a good thing, where in the down side then?

Some people do have bad reactions to them and shouldn't be on them.  Being on either has been shown to reduce the chance of getting prostate cancer, so there are benefits of being on them aside from hair.

Just got some more avodart.  I've decided since i haven't had any adverse reactions to go ahead and take it daily.  Two weeks in now.  Now I just need to figure out which topical to use...

Right now just avodart still looking at what else I'm going to add.

Are you going to take pictures and post them pittsburgh?  you should take your befores now.

i pickd up some generic 5% minoxidil today as well as 2% nizoral cream!  Will probably replace the minoxidil later with a more advanced formula.

Why only using the spectral once per day?  Minoxidil is only effective for around 11-12 hours using it once a day will only maintain what you've got at best.  It needs to be used twice a day to get regrowth... if you're taking avodart you've got a pretty good shot with the spectral twice a day i'd go for it

I usually try to apply it after showering when the hair is still damp so that the minox and the hair dry at the same time and rebrush it afterit is dry - usually then there's not much noticable difference unless it's one of the greasier minoxidil formulas.

It's just a generic minoxidil formula i doubt it's available in the US.

A lot of people get it here from hair2go.com.  They are reliable.  There is an online company in he UK as well but I can't remember the name off the top of my head I'm sure someone else will.

When you say not working anymore and no change, what do you mean exactly?  The degree of hair loss is getting worse?  For how long?

Well in these past 3 years I have noticed more hair seems to be coming out, especially in the front where it was thick, it has now thinned out, I thought perhaps I was imagining it, but time tells all in this business, and its definetly getting thinner, the thin crown I had before going on fin now seems to creeping forward, alas, I,m not ready to give up the fight just yet, so I guess fin is no longer working its magic in stopping further hair loss, after a good 12 years of no more loss, others have stated after along period of usage this happens, and its true, the hair loss is definetly getting worse.. I did try to supplement procerin last year with fin, it seemed to do the trick, but it is thinning again, same thing happened last summer, but its not seasonal, as its never happened like this in the past, so I thought I would give this dut stuff a shot, as it seems quite safe of what I have read, never had any side effects with fin in the past.

You didn't answer my question though - how long do you feel finasteride hasn't been working?  Because sometimes you will see synchronized loss that is just temporary and in a couple of months it starts looking better again.

Anyone out there think hair loss could be caused by the "devil", if it exist, just wondered, I mean it really destroys some peoples lives, what I mean is, all the money spent on it, and nothing really gives you a full head of hair, not even a hair transplant, it should be simple really, as you can access the scalp to see whats happening quite easily, but still it does not help, some stuff works for some, but not others, and no one really knows why, its certainly a mystery, just an odd thought.. If someone came up with a sure fire treatment for hair loss that worked for 90 % of people, they would not even need to advertise it, people it worked on would be walking advertisments, pictures by the shed load, not like that laser rubbish, does it, or dont it, no pictures, the biggest con out for hair loss, the makers should be shut down, and punters reinbursed, sorry going of on one, yes, did buy one in 2006, rubbish.

Have to agree with kane - if anything baldness would be caused by god to cure you of vanity   Remember Job?

Good point actually

It doesn't look like adding that could hurt.  Are you talking about pills or just adding foods to your diet that provide it?  It looks like it may help with inflammation which might help.  It is also supposed to have some antiandrogenic use as well but i could not find any study information saying exactly how or how well it might work.  It's biggest benefit seems to be helping to prevent cancer including prostate cancer, so it seems like it definitely can't hurt to add - how much it might help your hair loss is anyone's guess though.

How are you getting on with avodart ?. have ordered 3 months of genuine stuff from a company in Jersey, will take the plunge, being on fin 11 years but not working like it did, just happy to save what I have, do you lose any hair ?, keep us informed if you can.

Shedding seems like it might have decreased a bit, but it's hard to say.  It's really too early to see any results I am just coming up on the 4 week mark.

They send the stuff out from the uk on private prescription I have recieved the order for avodart yet as I only posted it too Jersey on 9/8/2010. Always found them ok in the past, will see what there like now, as its been a few years since I have ordered from them

Got a new bottle of 5% today... apparently I went through a bottle in 2 weeks -- oops

MPB is largely governed by scalp DHT production and circulating DHT does not have much an effect, save for perhaps the most sensitive individual. This is why oral Finesteride is only moderately effective in combating MPB. Plus, one of its side effects is to increase circulating Testosterone, making more available at the scalp to be converted to DHT...

Dutasteride is more effective than Finesteride and mostly likely those starting it at the earliest signs of MPB would probably find it highly effective. Still, the long-term consideration of oral use.

However, both Finesteride and Dutasteride are soluble in alcohol. I made my own topical Finesteride for years until it became commercially available. IMHO, topical Finesteride is probably more effective than oral since increases in circulating Testosterone are minimized.

Topical Dutasteride is simple to make. Cut open the gel caps and squeeze into a bottle of 5% Minoxidil. Rub what gets on your hands into your scalp. Now worries about oral use. I wish I had started this when Dutasteride was first available. My insurance covered it too!

I actually still use 15% Xandrox+. However, I cut is with an equal amount of Xandrox, making a 0.5% topical. Why not...

So are you still using avodart mixed with minoxidil now?

Also ketoconazole 2% 2X per day, Alpecin (caffeine) in the AM, Carnitine liquid PM, Prox-N PM.

Shampoo with Nano and Caffeine Shampoo, Nizoral too.

I went ahead and am trying the topical avodart now... starting to worry about sexual side effects so think I'm gonna give topical a try. 

The skin is like blotting paper, even just using fin on the scalp will not stop it entering into the blood stream, think about nicotine patches, contraceptive patches, etc etc, they all enter throught the skin into the blood stream, its a medical fact, perhaps not so much, but still a drug into the human body, I suspect the drug is entering your blood stream through your scalp, and working like the oral medication does, so a bit pointless using it as a topical, as your getting it into you internally anyway, me thinks. Fin and dut dampen down the dht in the blood, which feeds to the follicle, I would have thought just putting it on the scalp would not be so effective, thats why the medical company that produces Propecia brought it out as a oral medication for hair loss, as opposed to a topical one, just my pennies worth, how is your hair growth ?. Testosterone is a hair stimulant anyway, it gives you a breard, nasal hair, body hair, an enzyme converts it to dht, which does the damage to your hair, so pure testosterone is a good thing for muscle growth hair growth, if you can stop the conversion to dht thats the trick. . I did read a article somewhere, about some people living on a distant Island who to a man never suffer from baldness, scientist found they did not have any dht in there bodies, so they came to the conclusion that not having any dht in the body was not detrimental to human health.

Not 100% true. Studies show that only about 40% of topically applied Finesteride is absorbed systemically. Topical ketoconazole is virtually indectible systemically.

My guess is that some Dutasteride will be absorbed systemically, probably on the order of Finesteride, which is why I cut my topical Finesteride to 0.5%.

Also, some men, myself included, have libido issues when too much DHT is blocked. This is why I stopped using oral Finesteride.

Yes, I understand about the libido side effects, its a bit of a double edged sword, luckily I never hand any problems in that department, will see what happens on dut, when it arrives.

DHT evidently is the gremlin that causes the prostate to enlarge in some men, and hair loss in others, the fact that having no testicles before puberty has proven that men never lose there hair, so all those people out there who think hair loss is caused by other things are wrong, its your plums doing the damage to your hair, having your plums removed after you have gone bald does not as I know regrow your hair.

Women are warned not even to touch Finasteride tabs, if they are trying to become pregnant, or are pregnant, so it must be a pretty potent drug even just on the skin. I used to just use it half a tab every other day, or sometimes every three days, for over a decade and never lost anymore hair, but now it does not seem to be working like it did, hence the dut, will experiment to see how things go.

John is right.  Whether it is absorbed systematically depends on the actual medicine.  Some are absorbed systematically and some are not.  That's one of the reasons people were excited about RU58841 - it was completely topical with no systemic absorption and seemed to have as good of results if not better than Propecia.  Even if something does get absorbed systemically, the whole dose would not get absorbed so you would still be getting a smaller systemic dose than taking it orally.

Also what you said about Testosterone is not true as well.  It is true that if you're taking Propecia or avodart, a little extra DHT is not going to hurt things.  But they've also done studies showing if you boost testosterone enough, it will activate the androgen receptor the same way DHT does.  So if you're taking testosterone injections, steroids, or something that really boosts your T dramatically, it won't matter that you are blocking the DHT.  It could be tha this explains why some people don't get the same effect from Propecia or Avodart as well -- their testosterone can still be binding with the androgen receptor and have the same effect as DHT.  Maybe they are more susceptible to that.

That warning with women and touching finasteride is totally a liability thing.  They just don't want women messing with it to prevent anything accidental.  A woman touching/holding a pill is not going to do anything.

While DHT is the root cause for MPB, circulating DHT is not. The problem is circulating T being converted to DHT in the scalp. I agree a secondary concern may be that if T is high enough, some hair loss may occur. I know I certainly have very high T levels. Two years ago, my blood work had one failed parameter -- testosterone too high.

This is probably why even Avodart is not 100% effective -- it is not a receptor antagonist. Moreover, it is not know to have any hair growth stimulation properties. So, while Avodart may be good and is probably very effective for those just starting to loose their hair, it is not good for anyone already balding, other than to keep what they have.

Now, this 2% Nizoral creme, Avodart (and 15% Xandrox+) really seems to be working, because all aspects of MPB are addressed:

- Conversion of T to DHT in the scalp is blocked by Avodart.

- Nizoral is a mild DHT antagonist with anti-inflammitory and perhaps hair growth stimulation properties. Coupled with Avodart (and maybe the Azelaic Acid in Xandrox) my guess is that all scalp androgenic activity is blocked.

- Xandrox 15+ is the most potent Minox available and supplements/complements stimulation properties of Nizoral.

- No worries of angiogensis blocking by Spironolactone.

Ok, a complex regimen, not the cheapest, a bit messy but I have not seen better...

When Ketoconazole cream, 2% was applied dermally to intact or abraded skin of Beagle dogs for 28 consecutive days at a dose of 80 mg, there were no detectable plasma levels using an assay method having a lower detection limit of 2 ng/ml.

After a single topical application to the chest, back and arms of normal volunteers, systemic absorption of Ketoconazole was not detected at the 5 ng/ml level in blood over a 72-hour period.

Two dermal irritancy studies, a human sensitization test, a phototoxicity study and a photoallergy study conducted in 38 male and 62 female volunteers showed no contact sensitization of the delayed hypersensitivity type, no irritation, no phototoxicity and no photoallergenic potential due to Ketoconazole cream, 2%.

Read more: http://www.drugs.com/pro/ketoconazole-cream.html#ixzz0wSR1G8Qc

Oh I also bought Kamagra (generic Viagra) and it works like a champ.

But if you're in doubt, get your pre dutasteride DHT levels checked and check them again after you're on dutasteride for a few months and you will have your answer.

Not sure about antibiotics though. Were they brand or generic?

Dr. klein has a good minoxidil/retin-a/finasteride combo that works well for me.  Don't have any of it right now or I'd be using it.

Have just recieved 3 months supply of Dut, branded stuff from glax, have not started yet, just looking at it. Took about 10 days to arrive, cost 190 squid, if I start, and if it does some good with out any side effects, I might try my doctor, though he is a bit of a over paid miserable sort, dont hold out much hope there, especially as its not being licensed for hair loss, like fin, will see.

If you don't have side effects you can also let him know that.  Take him copies of the prostate cancer prevention results and the avodart hair loss studies in case he hasn't seen them and tell him even if it doesn't work for hair loss you want to be on it to prevent prostate cancer   if you've already been taking it with no side effects, not sure why he would say no at that point

Have not started it yet as stated, not that keen to be honest, what with side effects not being really known long term, like fin. Only wash my hair once a week, , nothing in wash that I can see, but when I dry it and run a my fingers through it briskly to dry it, then brush it forward to style it, it does seem to come out a bit more then it did ?, most of the hairs coming out have been cut, not sure if its thinning, as its looked the same for about a year, also use procerin with fin, coupled with the crappy laser dont know why I bother with it, seems to do little that I can see, except lighten your wallet. As mentioned I did not think fin was working anymore, after 12 years, mind you I was only washing my hair once a fortnight, funny thing was very little hair ever came out, but it was getting thinner in the front for sure, then I was only taking half a fin tab every 2 to three days.

Now I,m taking procerin, fin, third of a tab, every day, it seems to be coming out more, funny thing last year this time it seemed to come out more as well, but hair does not seem to look any thinner ?, hence the dut, its a strange affair ?, I do not buy into the theory that shedding hair is a positve sign, before mpb reared its ugly head I never suffered from sheds period, bit of a enigma wrapped up in a riddle, and surrounded by a mystery this hair loss business.

I do not think my doctor takes hair loss seriously, webby, he says very little, a bit mute really, I would not feel comfortable, there is still a stigma of being a wimp losing ones hair, and you should face it like a man, but its easier said then done I guess, will see anyway.

I don't really buy in that sheds are necessarily a good or bad sign.  You are always shedding hair, sometimes more, sometimes less, and someimes you just notice it more than other times even though it's the same.

it sounds like you are taking less finasteride now?  if that's so that might be why you are seeing more shedding.

any way to get a new doctor?  either way, i find for me i get a lot more enjoyment out of life if I don't give a f**k what people think, so it wouldn't stop me from asking the doctor even if I thought he was gonna say no. 

May be doke, but even every day shampoos with all those additives don't cause hairloss.

Sorry I thought you meant you were taking a third of a propecia pill (.33mg), not 1/3 of proscar   I did quarters myself.  You just cut the pill in half and then cut the halves in half.  You need a good pill cutter to do it.